Now with bonus head-exploding addendum!
“When I was a boy I was told that anybody could become President; I’m beginning to believe it.” ~Clarence Darrow
I’m 24 and I could probably tell the average 34 year old more about politics in 30 minute pedicure session all the while blissfully reading this week’s US Weekly and interjecting with my thoughts on Speidi after flipping each page. I’m not an expert on politics; electoral, congressional, presidential, gubernatorial, none of it, but I feel like I need to say very slowly to some members of our studio audience that there are people – me – who actually go to school to study the science of politics and then they end up with careers in that particular field. There are actual people in the world who discuss politics each and every single day to the point where if they go home and have to read the regurgitated, hyperbolic, misinformed bullshit from people who suddenly decided to pick up the newspaper – apologies, it’s 2008, so by ‘newspaper’ I mean blog – then their heads will explode. Death by Ignorance.
And while I commend people for taking the time to now get informed on issues that others have been engrossed in for decades, I don’t appreciate taking a stance on an issue based on a wikipedia entry or deciding on who to vote for because someone sports the same genitalia that you sport.
Yesterday evening I got angry. Like irate over the presence of a photo on Flickr of a McPalin sign. Which is fine, if you agree with someone on the issues then that is fine but don’t then get huffy and menacing and have your wittle baby feelings hurt when people start to question you or offer dissenting opinions. Especially if your ‘post’ on why you support them leaves much to be desired. And when people voice their valid opinions and ask you WHY then don’t go off and stomp your feet and say that people are so fucking rude. They aren’t being rude they’re asking questions and if you’re going to broadcast your political affiliation then at least be prepared to answer simple god damn questions.
There are bits and pieces to both candidates that are imperfect and their stances are still being worked out. Fuck, Barack Obama once proudly supported school choice and vouchers but at least I am able to wade through his positions and tell you which onces I can wholeheartedly support and which make me feel like he’s raking his nails across a chalkboard just to see me flinch. And so if McPalin is your choice fine, go right on ahead and vote for them, that’s the great thing about Democracy but be able to back up your reasoning and do not, I repeat do not, get offended when someone tries to tell you otherwise. That’s the great thing about America; people are allowed to argue and fight their point until their blue in the face. But you don’t want to look like some dumbshit who just yesterday discovered television.
All of this angry and need to put my foot down came after a post that Stara wrote that was incendiary even if she didn’t mean for it to be as such but was also well thought out and frankly, I was proud of her for putting herself out there. But the comments she received left my mouth gaping and possibly drooling that people would actually use in an argument “Can you please not offend me personally”. I hope that one day Chuck Todd interviews someone and when he presents that person with a truthful and fair argument I hope that the interviewee stops the interview and says “Um, this argument you’re presenting me with offends my delicate sensibilities, could you please stop?” I hope he does stop and then apologizes and then they hold hands and walk off into the sunset.
I’m going to cut and paste exactly what I told Stara and leave you with this so I can go walk around and breathe and appreciate literacy. I wrote this right before the irritation of utter stupidity caused so much pressure in my head that my brain shot out through my eye sockets and left nostril:
I’m just sick of fucking sanctimonious, self-righteous people who suddenly are interested in politics and think that they are brilliant or know what the fuck they’re talking about. Try doing this every god damn day as a fucking career. If any of these people had to do this for a LIVING, they would be curled up in the fetal position whimpering for their mommies because the mean man made them cry because they couldn’t adequately argue their positions and they keep getting hammered on it. I don’t write about politics and it’s my fucking job. You know why? Because I am an expert in one thing: [redacted]. That is all. So I’m not about to argue any position but I do compliment people who write well thought out posts on a subject that they have clearly researched. But don’t come and comment on those posts with some bullshit because it personally offends you. That’s not what politics is about.
Addendum and I swear I’ll be done after this:
So there’s this chick on Flickr who is all Ra-Ra! McPalin. In her description all she says is that she loves them and loves Sarah Palin the end. When people in her comments section ask why she gets all up in arms because OMFG People had the nerve to ask her a question about why she is supporting who she is supporting. And then she got an attitude with me so I copped an attitude right back saying that it kind of comes with the territory: If you post something political people MIGHT ask why you’re supporting who you are supporting. This was her response back to me:
I’m sorry but stating “no one has given any real reason for
why they like her” is ignorant and then asking me why I do
is insulting. There are many reasons why I and many others
like her and showing my support doesn’t mean I have to make
a list for other people to respect my choice. I and
disagree that it comes w/the territory. It only comes with
it when those types of personality come into play. I figure
that people who like Obama have learned about him and choose
to like him anyway…I dont ask them why. Do I need to past
a test w/everybody to show I have researched her and
therefore am allowed to like her?
39 Comments
I love you.
But I support school vouchers and so I can’t read you anymore because your politics are personally repugnant and dare I say, abhorrent to me and they huwt my weetle feewings.
And the nice thing about that, Stara, is that people have differing opinions and yet they can still be cordial and not get all whiny and crazy-like when discussing their differences. Amazing how that happens.
Also my point is that people view things differently, fine, whatever, but don’t get all offended and shit when someone who disagrees with you has the audacity to ask you why you think the way you do. And never, ever, ever say that someone’s argument – an argument that has been used for decades – hurts your feelings so please don’t use it. You’ve got to be kidding me.
I don’t actually support school vouchers, just to be cwear.
Even if you did, I would ask why, accept it and then move on.
Also look! An entire comments section with thoughtful discourse without anyone losing their shit: http://www.sweetney.com/linkblog/2008/09/community-organ.html
I’m right there with you. My career started in politics and I learned everything I could about it. Everything. And during election season, I actually read EVERYTHING, even tiny little bits and pieces that no one thinks about, but that better explain why a candidate has a position, or what their actual experience in said topic actually IS. I read EVERYTHING, and I choose my candidates very carefully and thoughtfully, based on my actual, well thought-out beliefs on what will make this country better.
Oh, and history. History is so, so important.
For the record, I used to be an assistant press secretary. I know precisely how each camp comes up with their talking points, and how they manipulate the press to repeat said talking points. And nothing — and I really mean it, NOTHING, short of GENOCIDE — infuriates me more than hearing people regurgitate some cheap talking points developed by a bunch of people like me.
(I’m looking at you, people who are touting Palin’s “executive experience” and calling Obama an elitist. Do you really think that didn’t come straight out of the brain of Tucker Bounds and his strategists in an act of desperation?)
Actually, what am I talking about? I read everything even when it ISN’T election season. Which, frankly, is an important part of being an informed voter and an informed American. Pay attention all the time, not just when it counts.
Long time reader, first time commenter here.
I work in a pretty small office, and there is a young man here, maybe 25, who is from a very wealthy family (case in point, he totaled his Audi and showed up the next day in a brand new Beemer). He is voting for McCain, although he has no idea why.
I am not the most well-informed political person either, so I don’t usually debate politics with anyone, but this poor kid cannot defend his choice. Debating him was like a cat playing with a ball of yarn. No sport. So I stopped. But his kind terrify me. “Daddy voted Republican, and so shall I.
Even if I don’t know why.”
Tangentially related – but it is driving me mad all the sudden talk and interest in politics (which is ALWAYS a good thing) but that it makes people think that suddenly they are brilliant and know everything about everything (which I think was your point) but what really makes me crazy is all the rhetoric that that is THE MOST IMPORTANT election ever. I just don’t get that. Aren’t they all important? Isn’t that what this process is about? Or is this one only important because you are paying attention to it?
And if we are going to try to pick an important election cycle – wouldn’t it have been 2000? If Gore had been given the Presidency then would we even be in this mess now? And would people be up in arms about this election?
This makes me crazy.
um. i love you.
and not just because you – and William Miller in Almost Famous – use the word incendiary
I am SO happy you posted this.
I totally have to ditto Ali and how your use of incendiary makes you even MORE awesome. Great post.
Aha! This is the very reason I shy away from talking about politics! While it has been extremely difficult not to engage – especially while watching this crazy unpredictable presidential election – I have a hard time with people who get personally offended over a difference in opinion. My response is – so what if we disagree? We may walk away from a conversation just as strong in our originial views and that’s OK. Why do people think that because they open their mouths to speak about politics, they must CONVINCE others to think as they do? And when they don’t these people go to a place of judging others harshly (as in making character and moral judgments upon the person based on political views). I have had plenty of discussions with people I haven’t agreed with and yet I still respect them as people. I mean, c’mon…
The other reason I don’t talk politics is because I never feel that I know enough. No matter how much I read I wonder if I really have the truth. I question where the info came from and the agenda and motives behind the remarks. So, like you- I laugh when I see people regurgitating what they’ve heard in a 20 second news bite like they know something extraordinary when they are just as confused as the rest of us…
P.S. Maybe you aren’t confused but I am.
Um, I’m sorry…did you just say you are 24? Because I’ve hung out with you TWICE. I sat next to you and had cocktails. And, um…I never would have guessed you were not at least my age.
You are the most mature 24 year old I’ve ever met, just sayin.
(Off topic, I know, and I agree whole heartedly with the rest. )
Well said indeed. And since you’re more knowledgeable than myself on this topic in general, I’ll refrain from relevant commentary and simply announce that I sort of want to jump into the television sometimes and kiss Chuck Todd on the forehead. Just a little.
I wish I had something totally intelligent to say…but I think the intelligent quota has been reached on this page so instead I will just say: that was awesome!
I like to think that it is important to be informed at all times. At least that’s what I used to tell my students. And when reading, one should read from a variety of sources. Every publication has its own bias. I think that by reading a variety, one can get to what is more likely the truth of an issue.
I have tried my best to refrain from commenting on blog posts about politics this election season — mostly because I don’t really have the time or energy to get into a lot of arguments right now.
I also understand your feelings about politics. I chose to move away from all things legal after school (Ummm no, this does not mean that I have taken up a life of crime.) but it really irks me when I hear someone misinterpreting some court decision or a law.
I am an expert in one discipline, and everybody thinks they know something about it. So when they talk about it, I tend to NOT offer my opinion, nor get offended by theirs, nor judge them for having an opinion–even if it is less informed, theoretically, than my own. You know why? Because it’s their right to have one. Just like it’s the right of the moron to vote for someone and not know why. Or vote for someone because they like their gender, or like what they look like. That’s what one person, one vote is all about.
Do I sometimes think my vote should count more than these people? Of course. But that’s why I’m not in charge.
I’m sorry, I don’t want to be incendiary, and I don’t even really disagree with you, but this post comes off kind of snotty. Maybe it’s the 24 v. 34 comment, I dunno. At 35, I can tell you things do change a bit as you get older, regardless of how much you know about politics or [insert topic].
Well a) I am pretty snotty and petulant and pretentious. I’ve said that from day one b) I do know that things change as I get older but what I am saying is that I could tell a 34 year old an extensive amount of information about the electoral college or congressional politics and fuck, I could tell a 34 year old the name of both of their Senators. I’m not being snotty it’s just a matter of fact. And of course 34 year olds are far well versed in things like, I dunno, LIFE, than I am but when you go to school to study the electoral college then you end up being able to tell other people who are far older and wiser how it works.
It’s just like a 28 year old lawyer being able to tell a 38 year old non-lawyer about constitutional law. The lawyer lived and breathed it for years so clearly the lawyer has some idea of how law works or what New York Times Co. v. Sullivan or Gideon v. Wainright did to constitutional rights. It isn’t snooty it’s just fact. If you study something then chances are you will know more about that subject than someone who didn’t.
Finally, I don’t care if people have stupid opinions, it is their right to be ignorant but they don’t have the right to get offended when people call them out on their ignorance. If you are going to have a stupid opinion and defend it to the death then you better be able to back it up.
I get what you are saying about that, I’m not really disputing the facts of you having more experience with that topic. I guess I am coming from the perspective of someone who has expertise in a field that, like yours, is something in which the average person fancies themselves qualified to speak. And it can be frustrating, because yes, your perspective is different, and based on more research, evidence, reading, etc. But it doesn’t totally invalidate the position of others.
When I was in graduate school I would get frustrated by speaking with, say, my father about literature. Because, though he is a very well educated man, he doesn’t know as much about literature as I do. And he would take a pretty simple short story by V.S. Naipaul and just totally MISS the metaphor of India, and I would want to say, “DUH!”
But the thing is, literature is not just written for people who study it incessantly. Just like politics are not just for people who understand it. You might find that lame (as I do), but that’s reality.
We can agree to disagree, though. I shouldn’t have called you snotty. That was even snottier of me.
a) I like you.
b) I’ve been trying REALLY HARD to educate myself about politics because I feel it is my duty as a parent.
c) I have come to the conclusion that “politics is hard” and my brain hurts, and therefore I’ll just vote for whoever you tell me to because I trust your opinion.
I’m glad you recanted a little Anna, because I have to say, nothing is more condescending or frustrating than hearing “Oh, when you’re older, you’ll know what I mean.” Even if it’s true, in your experience, that’s the kind of thing you’ll never learn or see until you are older, and hearing it is just infuriating.
That being said, I took what Heather to mean as actual knowledge on the actual workings of the legislative system of the United States. And knowing what she does for a living, I tend to believe her that she knows a helluva lot more than most people, including me (and I’m 33, so I could totally be the example she held up).
I do share her frustration, however, in that many people aren’t informed voters — they skim, they barely piece together some half-assed arguments from random strategists, and say hey! This is who I’m voting for! As an informed voter, that drives me crazy. I can’t imagine what it must be like for someone like Heather, who goes beyond informed voter status to actual real-life expert on many of these topics, you know? And although the political system is designed for everyone, and that many people aren’t informed, intelligent voters, that doesn’t mean it’s not infuriating as shit.
JONNIKER FOR PRESIDENT.
Thank you for the links to the Comment-o-lympics. Holy Jesus Crackers with Cheese and Baco-Bits! I just spent about an hour going through them and I have to say it’s some of the best stuff (and also some of the smarmiest) material I’ve read in a long time.
The reason I typically don’t engage in political discussion is because I don’t know enough. I do have a few of my favorite topics (abortion being one of them) that I can discuss, but I sure as hell don’t know anywhere near as much as I should. Basically I just used a lot of words to agree with you.
AMen! You said what I’ve been trying to tell people this year. (Except for the fact that I am by no means an expert and didn’t go to school to study politics.) BUt, I don’t understand why people can’t respect other’s views and why some people can’t do any research to back up their stance. Drives me crazy when they get all up in arms and don’t even know what they’re talking about!
That was me that left that comment on Flickr that got her all bent out of shape. But since she excoriated me for the comment, I’ve given my knee-jerk Palin opposition some though. I wonder if it isn’t about time we had a Vice-president who spoke in tongues..
I know I said we could still be friends last week via Twitter. But, that was before I knew you had an opinion. Because I like being the only one with an opinion.
But, really, I want to hug you. And, buy you some wine.
If Tribe is the real deal and meant what she said… this gives me almost as much hope as Obama’s nomination. Because THAT is what it is all about. Letting our knee-jerk reactions recede and then giving actual thought and attention to that very reaction, and choosing to educate ourselves in the process. Growing up in a FUNDAMENTALIST christian family, my mantra after leaving has always been, “I don’t care what you believe, as long as you are willing and able to back that shit up.” If you don’t live it, or can’t tell me why it is true in your world, I have no respect for you. But if you believe that aliens impregnated your mother and gave birth to you and can reason with me about why… I have no problem. You rock.
I couldn’t take it and I left a comment too. Did you even see the foolishness comparing Obama/Biden to Osama Bin Laden? Because that shit is just fucked up and racist and OMG MY HEAD EXPLODED TOO.
I don’t understand… Is she saying that she’s offended you expected her to have information behind her opinion? I guess it’s hard to back up your opinions when you pull them out of a hat, but you should totally be able to at least describe the color of the hat.
Yes. This woman is offended because I expected for her to have information behind her opinion. Then she had the nerve to call ME ignorant. Oh and she thought my question was rude.
Then she had the never to say this:
If you werent ignorant of why shes liked then why did you ask?
Anyway, instead of asking people why they like her why not google and see how you feel about her yourself. That would offend way fewer people and help you to make a real decision.
When I asked her why she couldn’t answer a simple question and then got annoyed and told her that she had her head up her ass and that calling me ignorant was totally pot calling the kettle black, she said this:
Hahaha omg how ridiculous… how many issues can one person have? How do you even make it through a day? I could see through your “simple question” from the beginning and it annoyed you so much that I wouldn’t give you my answers that all you could do is put me down and call me names. I’m sorry you couldn’t bully me into it.
In fairness to our Flickr friend, Sarah Palin refuses to do interviews, so ya know, how can you form a basis to like her? Her bitchin’ eyeglass frames DUH.
Small minds are everywhere apparently. Keep your chin up, Kiddo.
It’s a strange point we’ve reached in politics. One where being informed is seen as problematic, where opinions are more about emotion than ideas.
And that’s the beautiful thing (for the other side) about the Palin pick. She’s so fresh that people can assign to her whatever they want/need to. Who cares that she doesn’t actually know…say…what Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are? We like her. And for many, that’s enough.
Just discovered this great blog, and will be back for plenty more.
Re: Addendum
JESUS CHRIST. That chick on Flickr has me all riled up now. What a little honesty wouldn’t do for some people, huh?
I will full-on admit to not paying a lot of attention. I’m almost 31 and I watched the DNC and RNC for the first time in my life this year. So I know that my knowledge is SMALL. And I know who I’m voting for and have my reasons.
Like you, I just want people that vote to make informed decisions. It is sad that people are being called stupid if they are voting for one over the other. No one is stupid AT ALL. We have the right to believe and vote for what and who we want. But you should be making an informed decision and be able to back up your choice.
It is the uninformed people that scare me. Like the people I met at a party back in March who said that Obama was behind 9/11 and BELIEVE IT. I don’t even know what to say to those people.
Great post!
And when I said “we like her”? I didn’t mean me.
Alright, now I’m dying to know what you are an expert in.
Also, AMEN to the stuff about the flickr Palin fan. Having recently become fascinated with Facebook, I’m also really saddened by how many people from my past went out an joined the “Fans of Palin” group or whatever it’s called…and yet, I’m one of those people who doesn’t feel intelligent enough to try arguing with them. Oy.
Maybe the 24 v. 34 comment is snotty to some (I’m snotty too so… whatever) but… I’m 30 and I honestly don’t know who my senators are. Off the top of my head. Give me a minute…
But. I am 30 and I could tell anyone of any age what their blood pressure, cholesterol, resting heart rate should be…you get the picture. Because that’s the field I’ve studied. It’s not being snotty to say that I can tell a new mother how to breastfeed when I, myself, am not a mom. It’s just… I’ve worked in the damned medical field. I know my shit.
When you know your shit, you have a right to state it.